Why Some Interior Designers Avoid Their Systems & Processes

Why "I'll Do It Later" Never Actually Happens

Why don't interior designers have systems in their business?

Most interior designers already know they need a documented process. That is not the gap. The gap is follow-through: many designers tell themselves they will build a system once a slower season arrives, and that season quietly never comes. Dixie and Paxton Willard of Poised & Plumb also point to a specific belief that keeps designers stuck, that because every project looks different on the surface, a repeatable process is not possible. In practice, they say this belief does not hold up. The operational problems that slow a design firm down tend to repeat across nearly every project, even when the design work itself does not.

Why Some Interior Designers Avoid Their Systems & Processes

Douglas Robb

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What is the first step to building operations systems in an interior design business?

The first step is not a polished system. It is a brain dump. Paxton Willard of Poised & Plumb describes starting broad and getting more detailed over time — writing down whatever comes to mind about how a task currently happens, in any order, whether typed, spoken into a recording, or handwritten. The goal at this stage is capturing what is already running in your head, not organizing it. Every design firm already has a process, even if it has never been written down. A small, regular block of time (Paxton suggests around fifteen minutes a week) moves this forward without a full weekend or a business overhaul.

Do generic business templates work for interior design firms?

Not reliably, according to Paxton and Dixie Willard of Poised & Plumb. Generic coaching built around "follow my system and your business will work" does not account for how differently individual firms are built and run. That does not mean starting over from nothing on every project, though, refining an existing process is different from reinventing it each time. The distinction matters: a workable system needs enough structure to repeat, and enough flexibility to fit a specific firm's clients, vendors, and workflow, instead of a template applied without adjustment.

Why is fixing an existing design business harder than starting a new one?

Paxton Willard compares it to renovation versus new construction. A custom new build starts from a blank slate; there is a lot of work, but none of it involves correcting something that already went wrong. A renovation means opening up what already exists and finding out what has been hidden, sometimes literally, the way tearing out a wall can reveal mold. Fixing operations in an established design firm works the same way: it means opening up existing processes and finding what has quietly been causing problems, rather than starting clean. Sometimes there is nothing wrong underneath. Sometimes there is. Either way, it is different work than building a system from scratch.

What can interior designers do if they can't afford outside operations help yet?

Designers who are starting out do not need to hire outside help immediately. Dixie and Paxton Willard recommend starting with examples already available, including asking Poised & Plumb directly, since they are open to sharing the main pieces of how a project comes together. Beyond that, their strongest recommendation is community: joining a professional group such as IDS or ASID, networking with other designers, and treating the field as collaborative rather than competitive. Referring a project that is not the right fit for you tends to come back around. Outside, paid support becomes worth considering once managing operations alone starts pulling real time and attention away from the design work itself.

How much time does it take to build a real operations system?

Less than it feels like it should. Paxton Willard puts it simply: you do not have to build the whole system in a day. A small, consistent block of time, around fifteen minutes a week, an approach he credits to his mother and business partner, Dixie Willard, is enough to move a system forward without a dedicated overhaul weekend. The work happens slowly: keep what is already working, adjust what is not, and add to it a little at a time. The barrier is rarely the number of hours required. It is starting before waiting for a calmer week that is not coming.

What is Poised & Plumb's workflow intensive workshop?

A workflow intensive is a short, structured session Poised & Plumb runs quarterly, built for the designer who has been meaning to organize their systems and has not gotten there. Before the session, designers complete light prep work, a brain dump and some initial labeling, not a full solution. Dixie and Paxton then work through it with the designer directly, asking questions and helping move stalled progress forward. It exists because knowing you need a system and building one are different problems, and momentum is often the missing piece, not information.

• Transcript

  [00:47.4]

  Dixie, your background, I mean, I'd heard of you before on different podcasts and but before Poised and Plumb. Your career was not your typical design career. Can you walk us through it a little bit? Absolutely. So if we go way, way back, which I feel like that kind of helps you get into where I'm coming from for some of the stuff that we're doing now.

  [01:12.2]

  I went to school originally to become a mechanical engineer, so I have that very logical brain. I liked the designing aspect and the creative aspect of pulling things together that the mechanical gave me. But all of that translates really, is what I'm saying.

  [01:32.3]

  Fast forward a few years. Air Force wife, we move, end up in Hawaii, and I am taking my junior year of classes and realize that I hate it. I hate was awful.

  [01:51.2]

  I mean, it wasn't anything I couldn't do, but it was just so boring. So I started looking at some other options and this is this. My husband was gone all the time. I had two young kids at home. So I was trying to be Very, very cognizant of all of the different restrictions.

  [02:07.6]

  And I decided to go ahead and look at architecture as an option. Love buildings, love it. Just, it fits me. Unfortunately, the University of Hawaii, which where we were stationed, their architecture program did not fit my lifestyle at the time.

  [02:26.3]

  So I kept looking and it was, it was great. It's very rigorous but it did not allow for being essentially a single mom half the time. So yeah, kept looking, kept looking, kept looking.

  [02:42.6]

  And as I'm doing research, discovered that interior design is like architecture, it's just inside. So did a little bit more research, found Chaminade University of Honolulu and went to design school there, Got my bachelor's and then from there I worked at an architecture firm.

  [03:06.2]

  Until before we PCs, moved people who don't speak. Yep. Don't speak military acronyms. Yep. We moved from there to Oklahoma where I found a small, high end furniture store that also offered design.

  [03:28.5]

  And it was, it was the right number of hours a week. It was close to home. I had, I had a middle schooler and a high schooler. So I think that that age needs a little bit more attention than some of the other ages do. Yeah.

  [03:43.6]

  So it was great. My hours, I got to work, I left for work after they went to school. I got home at the same time they did every afternoon, did that for a few years. Decided that maybe I might want to do something a little bit more philanthropical.

  [04:01.7]

  So I took some classes at Oklahoma, City University in their business department towards business degree focusing specifically on nonprofits of Course.

  [04:17.2]

  Naturally they decided that, that that particular major wasn't popular enough. They just continued it. But I got some really great business classes in the meantime. So accounting, finance, project management, all those kinds of things. I know it's, it's long.

  [04:34.2]

  It's very long. From there I started my own interior design firm. I guess in between I actually did work for Williams Sonoma for a year doing E design for Pottery Barn Kids and pbteen and then Ethan Allen for a year just to kind of see that side of things.

  [04:53.5]

  But then I really kicked into my own design firm. When we moved here to Tennessee. That's a big change. And you were saying, it's a very long and winding road, but it's not really that unique. I mean most of the designers I know, very few of them went to design school, became an interior designer.

  [05:14.0]

  There's all these little. And the story of kids obviously is massive in this industry. Right. I mean, my wife was in the exact same boat right now, my daughter's 11. And so having the time to, be able to parent.

  [05:30.4]

  Right. How you want a parent is huge. Right. So if you can blend the two. Right, yeah, for sure. Exactly. All right. And then as a designer, I started using Mydoma studio, for my project management software. And in their Facebook group, I was helping people so much, they eventually said, hey, Dixie, we really like you.

  [05:51.0]

  You want to come and work for us, we'll pay you to do this. Which eventually led to, specifically supporting designers at the beginning, and then it led to helping to design the software as a product manager. Towards the end of that, were you still running your firm at the same time doing both?

  [06:09.1]

  I was, I was. Well, at that point my, my children were grown. Yep. So I didn't have to, worry about my children. But having. I always like to say that having Mydoma made it possible for me to work for Mydoma because it refined things so much for my design business that I had the time to spend helping other designers.

  [06:30.3]

  Right. Yep. Yeah. It was funny with the, with the merger, takeover recently of Mydoma. I'm curious to see how it all shakes out, especially for Mydoma users. Are they going to be as happy as they were or in, because who knows?

  [06:48.7]

  At first it's they're both going to exist, but in five years time, is Mydoma going to be there anymore? Who knows? Right, right, right. And it's one of those things where I hope it is. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what their plans are specifically. I know that their plans have changed a couple of times just depending on, But yeah, I, I want everybody using Mydoma to be just as happy.

  [07:10.2]

  Yeah. If not happier. Yeah. And that's the thing. I know a ton of designers who, when they talk about, platforms like that, the, the love they have for Mydoma just comes through. Right. Honestly, it's through the people that are at Mydoma too.

  [07:26.1]

  Just because there was such passion behind it, it was easy. Yeah, yeah. Their, their story, the whole how Mydoma came about is a great story too. Right? Yeah. Okay, well that brings us up to date on you. What about you, Paxton? I am not an interior designer.

  [07:43.5]

  We're just going to throw that out there. However, I have gone to college courses for interior design when I was a small child,

  [07:54.1]

  thanks to spring breaks and different things, I joined my mom in her classes at Chaminade in Hawaii. Obviously, in case those don't know, Dixie is my mother. But yeah, that might be nice to clarify.

  [08:10.0]

  Yeah. And you I'm, I'm seriously within five minutes of watching the two of you. It's pretty obvious. Yeah. We've spent a lot of time together or something. Yeah, yeah. But that's the very beginning of my story if we want to start there.

  [08:25.2]

  But basically the second I could get a job I did. And I've always been service industry based. So whether that be waitressing or retail or my degree is actually in photography with a minor in mass communications. And while I have that, I do not enjoy speaking in the masses.

  [08:44.3]

  But we're working on it. But And I also had a photography job to where I was going around to different places but then Covid hit and that kind of through everything for a whirlwind and so I leaned back heavily on retail because it was an essential job and jokingly told Dixie I was hey, if my dom is ever hiring, just let me know.

  [09:12.3]

  And then randomly she's hey, they're hiring. Didn't interview, just showed up one day and started working from there. What was, what was that position? So I started out just as the designer success, so customer support and eventually moved up to be a manager in that section.

  [09:33.7]

  And thankfully because my mom is an interior designer, I have a lot of knowledge whether that be in the way back of my mind or fully upfront, but it's not new to me. I at least had a good decent understanding before I started that.

  [09:51.1]

  And so then it just helped me continue down that path to even learn more about designers which in support you really don't know who you're going to end up with. And so sometimes you get a designer that works just on staging or some that do full new build constructions.

  [10:13.8]

  And so it was a great learning experience getting to spend one on one time with the different types of designers and learn even more about different ways that people are doing things. Yeah. So in a way that's, I mean obviously the, the photography shows you've got at least an eye or a natural talent towards how things should look and how things should, should work.

  [10:40.8]

  And you being around your mom, I mean I, I have zero ability to even picture like my wife's interior designs, but I think I, maybe not zero. I think I'm a good solid 3 or 4% now. I understand things better.

  [10:57.8]

  Right. And but I'm curious how both, both of your times working with Mydoma, how that improved your knowledge of interior design and interior designers.

  [11:15.5]

  Dixie, I'll let you start. Okay. For me was always in the back of my mind that there were not all designers did the same type of projects. And we didn't all do things using the same process.

  [11:31.5]

  When I went through design school, the industry was really, really siloed though, and a lot of designers gate kept information on how they did things, so really didn't have. We knew people did things differently. We weren't quite sure how each other were doing things.

  [11:49.2]

  So it was a really great opportunity to get a really in depth look at all of the different ways that people not just run their business, but the different systems, the different projects, the different types of people they work with. There are projects out there that I had no idea people even did.

  [12:07.4]

  Yeah, it's, it's dispensaries, when they started popping up. Dispensaries are an industry that use interior designers, bedroom related activities also.

  [12:25.3]

  There is a niche for that. It's, it's just blew my mind. You think of the standard stuff, but the number of different things that people do outside of that. So for me it really expanded that. But along with that came the understanding that there is no one right way to do it.

  [12:43.2]

  I already knew that. But there are multiple right ways to do it and it really depends on your individual business and your individual project types. Which also means that as much as I love Mydoma and I think I have shown my commitment to it, it's not right for everybody.

  [13:04.1]

  There are so many different softwares out there and it's because there are so many different ways to do things. And that's actually one of the things that we are, we think is really important is making sure that the software you are using as a designer fits you and your firm.

  [13:22.0]

  Right. Yeah. Working in support. I. There's a reason I Worked in support and not sales. I've never been a salesperson in my entire life. I've always just been what do you need? Okay, here you go, or here's how to get there kind of thing. Not a I'll try to sell you into something that I think will fit for you.

  [13:41.7]

  I really try to listen and be completely honest. And so in support, there would be times where I'd be okay, I'm going to be brutally honest. It may not be benefit to the company, but it may not be the right fit for you.

  [13:57.9]

  It sounds like the way that you're doing things, we're not going to have the tools that you need or stuff like that. I much rather be a hundred percent honest and tell people up front, be there's no one way for everyone. One way, one size fits all.

  [14:15.7]

  Not happening. Everybody has different personalities, different ways. They learn all sorts of different things. And so it's just a matter of really fine tuning it to yourself, listening to yourself, knowing yourself.

  [14:32.1]

  And if you are one that hates to read, don't read to learn. Yeah, not going to work. And so it's, yeah, being able to kind of talk to people and actually have them realize, okay, let's work a little bit and see how that does.

  [14:54.9]

  Because, Sarah Danieli, who was the co founder of Mydoma, absolutely love her. She was always a big advocate for educating designers. And so that's why she did things like 19 hours and did webinars and stuff like that.

  [15:12.1]

  And so that also helped encourage me to learn more from the designers that I was helping, whether that be, okay, so this is how you use the software, but why are you trying to do that and trying to understand a bit more from the designers so I can then explain it to them better or to other designers that are doing things similarly, stuff like that.

  [15:34.4]

  And so it's, it was a great learning experience and just diving headfirst into it, honestly. No, it sounds like it. And it, in a weird way, it sounds like the relationship a designer has with a client. Right. Especially a residential client.

  [15:50.7]

  You, you're in their home and you're trying to deliver them this vision of, of their dream home. How do you get there without really understanding them, and understanding, little nitpicky details?

  [16:05.8]

  And then you can, you can put all of that stuff together and create this masterpiece for them. So, I mean, it seems you were doing PAX and you were doing that exact same thing. You were drawing out all of that, that knowledge that maybe the, the designer wouldn't have come forward at first and told you all that stuff, they needed to have it pulled out of them, right?

  [16:28.3]

  Absolutely. And I mean, you, you message into a chat bubble, you don't expect somebody on the other end to necessarily care. And I was not that kind of person. I was no, tell me more I want to know. I want to help you the best that I can. Yeah.

  [16:43.4]

  Especially now because a lot of those chat bubbles are, are AI. Right. And so they're just working off of a script of some sort of. And yeah, they're not going to run. Well, maybe, what, Maybe Mydoma, pulls you guys and sucks all that knowledge out of your brain and create some proprietary AI system based on you.

  [17:06.0]

  I mean, they kind of did. Because we knowledge articles. Oh my God, you're right. We wrote that, we wrote the articles, the help articles that, the bot uses to answer the question. It's not the same. We're definitely better than just articles. But yeah.

  [17:21.2]

  Oh my God, so you're, so you're, you're probably getting a percentage, right? Like every month you guys are getting a check, right?

  [17:31.0]

  Okay, so there are no two design firms that are the same. But I bet you that both of you have seen examples of common problems, issues that have cropped up, whether it's working with Mydoma or now that you're, you've got your own thing going.

  [17:53.5]

  Yeah, I mean, there's multiple. Where do we start? Oh yeah, the juicy ones. The. I'd say the biggest one that I saw both in doing support and now is that a lot of designers have either no process or a process that they just kind of made do with and then never updated.

  [18:14.3]

  And that has been a big issue just because you gotta know the steps that you're taking and doing to make sure that things go smoothly. And I joked about this previously. It might have just been a conversation with Dixie and I, but designers always say that they're visual people, and ironically they don't give themselves some sort of visual document or something to show them their own process to make sure that they're doing things in the right order and making sure that they check off all the boxes.

  [18:48.7]

  You don't have to have a list, but something visual for you to be able to just, in the chaos, take a moment, breathe, look at what's in front of you, be okay, we've already done this. Here's what we need to do next kind of thing.

  [19:04.8]

  That's one of my biggest things, is not documenting or not having a clear process that you're continuing to update. Or they just buy a template and, try to work into the way that somebody else works, and it's not at all their own style.

  [19:23.3]

  And it can work for some people. Absolutely. And you can take inspiration for it, but you at least have to tweak it. There will always be adjustments to how you specifically work. Right. And if we bring that back to interior designers again, there.

  [19:39.4]

  There are rules to interior design, but once you've got those rules in place, then it's how you make it individual for the homeowner or whoever, right?

  [19:53.2]

  Yeah. So in terms of other kind of mistakes, other than not having processes, I I assume all designers actually have them. Whether they're documented is a question. Right. I think one of the. One of the things that designers tend to tell themselves that is not correct is, oh, well, I couldn't possibly have a process because every project is different.

  [20:16.9]

  I've heard that. I can't tell you how many times. And the analogy I used for years, was think of a Slinky. The toy that you. The spring toy. And it goes down the steps. Okay. So it has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Right. And you can stretch it.

  [20:34.1]

  Still has a beginning and middle and end. You can wiggle it around. Still has the same pieces. You can tie it in knots. Still has the same pieces. So thinking about the fact that you still have to get information, theoretically, from the beginning to the end, you still have the same basic ways of doing things.

  [20:54.8]

  You just may need to nudge them here or there, depending on the type of project. It's a good analogy. I like that. I may steal that. That was excellent.

  [21:07.8]

  Okay, so why don't we kind of build on that, and maybe I could get you guys to walk me through, a Typical. That's the wrong word. Typical. Totally the wrong word. A. A designer's process, a template that they can start with a core and then they can build on.

  [21:26.4]

  But. But what would you say is. Is a good process to have for a residential design project? And I would say that knowing that your steps are. You get the client in. I'm, gonna put it in really basic terms. Yeah. Talk to them about what they need.

  [21:42.9]

  You come up with something that's the basic idea. Then you check in with Them to make sure that, everybody's on the same page. Then you get to work putting it together. As far as doing the detailed design work, and then you implement it.

  [22:01.1]

  That's pretty much it. Yes. So that's perfect. That's a core. And then you can make it bigger, make it smaller, or like your slinky. You can twist it and do all sorts of stuff. Right, exactly. And even consultation works that way because you go, you you meet the client, you talk to them, you get information, you talk to them about what might happen next.

  [22:23.5]

  It still has those same basics, steps. Right. So if you were to sit down, this is for either of you. If, if you were to sit down with a designer who comes to you and, and knows that they need processes. Because, I mean, all you got to do is go on any interior Design podcast or YouTube video and processes like this huge buzzword.

  [22:45.1]

  Okay, I know I need that, but I don't know what it means and I don't know how to implement that. What, what would that look like if you were. You wanted to calm somebody down and say, okay, this is what we're going to do. How would that look?

  [23:02.2]

  Do you want to take that? Yeah, I'm happy to start on that brain. My brain just went blank. I'll try it. Well, I'm not editing that out.

  [23:17.5]

  That's classic. That's good. You can leave it in there. It happens curves, that we're human. Exactly. Not just for us, but for the designers. Yes. Yeah. Right, yeah. Make perfect. Okay, I'll leave it in. But, yeah, that's part of why we started what we do is because a lot of people are like, well, you need a process, you need a workflow.

  [23:45.2]

  And they're okay, yeah, good, got it. And then people sit down and they're what does that even mean? And it just. Nobody's not nobody. Not enough people are explaining the full details and the steps.

  [24:01.9]

  And so oftentimes once people are okay, I need a process, a lot of people will start to over complicate it and be okay, well, I need all these little tiny little things and check ins. And sometimes that overwhelms them or sometimes that ends up overwhelming their clients just because they have so much.

  [24:19.6]

  And so it's just a matter of pausing. Start broad and move down and get more detailed. So the typical steps, which is what I believe the original question was before, my brain farted some of the typical steps is just starting out with a brain dump.

  [24:44.2]

  And so just, you have. Your business is running. You have a process, whether you know it or not. So just dropping everything that comes to your mind doesn't have to be in order. Just throwing everything at a wall, whether it be a recording of yourself talking or you're actually writing it down, or you're putting it in to your notes on your phone.

  [25:10.7]

  Whatever you do, just get it out of your head is the main thing. And because going off of memory is what is the trickiest part. Because we're human, we forget, clearly. But once you have that brain dump, you can then tone things down and look at, okay, what do I still need?

  [25:33.8]

  What am I doing that's not working, that I can update it? And what is working really well, because, again, your business is running. So clearly you have things that are working, which is great. You don't need to break everything just to reinvent it.

  [25:49.5]

  You can keep those things that are working and then move forward and taking it a little bit at a time. Just. Has Dixie taught me, just taking even 15 minutes an hour each week to work on your business, you don't have to build roam in a day.

  [26:08.6]

  You can work on it slowly but surely and just pay attention to what you need and slowly start to build that. And we're here to help guide designers through that. But also, if they just aren't sure, we will help.

  [26:25.1]

  Just talk them through it and be okay, well, based off of what you've told us, we will help guide you on what would work best for you. Give it some time, because there is always a learning curve.

  [26:41.3]

  And then, re. Look at it, reassess, okay, based off of the changes, are you happy with it? Is it making life harder? Is it making it a million times better? And you absolutely love it.

  [26:57.0]

  Great. Let's still pick out what maybe isn't working for you and adjust. Business is always growing, always developing, always changing. Whether you are fully growing a team and growing that way, or if you're staying a solopreneur, your business needs to adapt.

  [27:20.3]

  Life doesn't stay the same, unfortunately, but also fortunately. And it's just a matter of just going back and making adjustments constantly, but just setting time aside to focus on that.

  [27:38.2]

  And I think one of the things that we emphasize that I don't hear a lot is at the end of every project, you should stop and take a look at everything that's happened. That's the perfect time, while everything is still fresh in your head.

  [27:55.2]

  We also suggest that you take notes along the way. And we have, some. Some Ways that we recommend that people do that to keep track of things. But take a look back, give yourself a pat on the back for all of the things that went absolutely amazing.

  [28:11.8]

  Hey, go look at the things that didn't go quite so well and see how you can make adjustments. It's not. You don't have to reinvent the wheel every single time you do a project. Oh, that was terrible. You know what? One thing I hear all the time, I hear this from a lot of designers. I had a problem on this project.

  [28:28.3]

  So now I've added a clause to my contract.

  [28:33.8]

  And I'm not saying you shouldn't have a great contract. I 100% think you should have a great contract. I think you should have, a what to expect document for your clients. Some way to tell them all of the things that are in your contract.

  [28:49.7]

  But in polite terms, friendly terms, you should always have a scope of work. But putting things into your contract because something went wrong, I don't think that's the right way to handle it. I think something goes wrong, figure out if there was something else you could have done differently first from your process or anything like that.

  [29:11.0]

  Words you could have said, maybe, in your what to expect document or to the client so that the client is kept abreast of everything that's happening because you need that. But yeah, not your contract shouldn't be your, your first stop.

  [29:29.6]

  No. I mean, no. Designers aren't selling widgets. Right. It's not a discrete thing. It's it. The process can be. I'm gonna use that word too many times in this can, be squishy at times. Yeah. Right.

  [29:44.7]

  And yeah. Was it. Was it our fault or was the client legitimately a jerk? Right. You shouldn't change your process if you ran into a jerk. Right. But unless you want to find a way to add in your process how to weed out the jerks. And then that would be great.

  [30:01.6]

  And I've heard, well, the client was a jerk. So now I'm going to put a clause in my contract that if the client is a jerk, then I can fire them. Well, you're first off your. We can break up. Yes. Terms that are in your contract should already be there.

  [30:19.2]

  And it shouldn't just be. Well, I. There shouldn't be a specific one for you were. You were mean to the contractor. Yes. You broke clause 17A. You were a jerk, sir. Exactly. You can have cause.

  [30:34.6]

  Yeah. And that's it. But I also always, always, anytime, anytime the subject of contracts Comes up, want to emphasize. Talk to a lawyer. Please talk to a lawyer. Yep, agreed. When it comes to, accounting or law, you should definitely be very strict.

  [30:54.6]

  But yeah, I mean, there's. When you're dealing with something that's as human and as personal as what interior designers do. I don't know. I've heard this on podcasts in the last year, a bunch of, Or on Instagram, in the comments section, people saying, designers who've got massive followings.

  [31:12.9]

  And they'll say, nope, you got to have all of these rules. And if my client breaks these rules and they're. And I'm well, maybe you've got a waiting list of hundreds of people, so you can do that. But that's. That's not normal. Right. That's not the average designer.

  [31:29.4]

  And that's. Actually there's a course that I teach at Luann University that is, developing your project qualification criteria. And it is specifically about. In it, we specifically talk about, maybe look at the client and their personality.

  [31:45.7]

  You can either say, nope, not going to do it, or take a look at it and realize that maybe you could make some small adjustments and accommodate. So my favorite example is engineers. I wonder why.

  [32:01.4]

  It's also the type of personality that designers have the most problems with across the board. Yeah. If you have an engineer as a potential client and you're talking to them, there's things that you need to know about that personality type.

  [32:17.2]

  For example, they like to know constantly. You need to tell them, I'm going to update you every week. And then you need to do it. And you need to give them that information. If you don't give them the information they need and show them that you know what you're talking about, they're going to start digging into stuff.

  [32:35.3]

  They'll probably dig into some stuff anyway because that's the nature of their brain. But that doesn't mean that you have to completely rule them out or say, no, I'm not going to do this for you. Maybe, maybe make it a little bit softer. Yeah, yeah.

  [32:50.6]

  And. And maybe have that conversation at the outset. Yes. Right. So that they, they know that you know what they need from the relationship. Right. And I will say engineers like the details first and then the big picture.

  [33:07.0]

  And that's not the way most designers work. No. They want to hand them the big picture. Yeah. Without all the details. Another thing that you guys do that's a little bit different is you don't just work with Designers, you work with the contractor, the that side of the business.

  [33:27.4]

  And when I saw that, that, that got me excited right away because it's different. But I just look as that as another example of ways for people to learn about each other and. Right. Exactly.

  [33:43.2]

  Yeah, exactly. Can you explain that part of the business? Sure. As a designer who my my design firm here in Tennessee, I focused solely on, well, not solely, I did renovations too, but I focused on custom, new build homes.

  [34:00.6]

  So that's a lot of interaction with a lot of different contractors and you get to learn what they need as well as what you need. But it's funny to me how many of them don't understand that designers can actually help them.

  [34:21.7]

  Designers can help make their lives easier. And so it's, it's an opportunity to both help designers understand how to work without their trades, but also help contractors understand that, that designer that you, that you are acting like she's just some little piece of fluff that kind of blew into the, into the construction site and is there and then she'll blow back out again.

  [34:48.5]

  Maybe understand the fact that she could, I don't know, get you all of the information that you need to build this. Build ahead of time. Yeah. All of the information. Yeah. Could make your life easier. So much easier. And handhold the clients through the selection process so you don't have to worry about it.

  [35:08.2]

  Make sure that the client understands all of the things that you don't have time to explain to them. Designers also are there for troubleshooting. There's so many times I would be on a job site and it could be outside, it could be inside, it didn't matter if there was a problem, especially one that needed to be dealt with visually.

  [35:30.2]

  It's one where you can sit there and say, okay, I see on the stone is wrapping around the outside and we need to either continue it here or, or drop it down here. What if we just dead end it into the wall so that we don't have to worry about the lines meeting up in this actual real world example that I'm trying to throw, throw together here.

  [35:51.1]

  But being able to help with that makes the contractor's life easier because now he's not having to figure out how to do all of that stuff. It makes the clients happier because they're going to have a more esthetically pleasing, end result and just makes everything go so much smoother.

  [36:10.7]

  Yeah. And I assume that would go the other way as well. Right. If you have a contractor that you know and trust. Right. They can give you a heads up that something you're designing is like, I there's a, there's these joke memes on Instagram now where it's the designer says, as the designer, I want this.

  [36:30.4]

  Right. And they're wrapping marble around a curved staircase. And then it's as the builder and he starts to talk and they cut him right off because it's all the designer. But those are legitimate issues, right. And a designer may, and I maybe that's not the best example, but there's going to be technical things that you're well, this is what I want.

  [36:49.6]

  And then the contractor can say, we could do that, but it's going to cost this much more. It's going to take this much more time and then they can work as a team. There's a reason why they are in the field that they're in.

  [37:05.3]

  Because a contractor may have the oversight of the general project, but may not always have the tiny little specific details about electrician and plumbing. They subcontract some people for that.

  [37:20.9]

  And so being able to do a, give and take relationship to where you lean heavily on the person that is the expert in certain situations and not just always trying to figure it out. Because sometimes trying to do that can cause more problems.

  [37:39.2]

  I'm not going to ask chat GPT how to plumb my toilet. Yeah, I'm. No, I'm gonna go to a plumber or my contractor and be like, okay, I need this, so help me with that. Or if, like Dixie said, if there's a visual thing, have the contractor go to the designer and be like, okay, this is what I have.

  [38:01.8]

  But how can we make it more visually appeasing? And so just having that relationship, like any relationship really is just being able to communicate, trust each other, know each other's strong suits and being able to ask questions and be open just because you want to know it all.

  [38:25.8]

  You physically can't. It'd be nice. But it's. There's a reason why job sites have all of these different people and trades and vendors. There is. Because it needs it.

  [38:41.0]

  And they've been doing it for so long. Learn from their experiences. Don't have to make your own mistakes to then have to learn. Yeah. And a little note to the designers here. It's the reason your clients hire you. Yeah, yeah.

  [38:57.7]

  Because you're the expert. Right. For sure. And especially if you're doing. If the designer handles like the Project management side of the job as well. They become that buffer between. So they're the one point of contact. Right.

  [39:13.5]

  And then they can translate what the. The homeowner is saying and have it happen in real life, which is the contractor and the trades. Yeah. Okay. In that same vein of contractor, designer, maybe you can give me a few ideas of the things that contractors need from designers that they don't get and on the other side that designers need from contractors and they're not getting.

  [39:42.4]

  We're doing a therapy session. Really? We need a contractor and a designer here. We're going to help them get along. So let's do that. Let's dive into. That sounds excellent. The contractor needs somebody who has an idea of what they're talking about, which means you need to not just show up on the job site and have no clue what anything is.

  [40:06.6]

  There are a lot of resources out there. IDS just had a session this week with, Elizabeth and I can't remember her full last name. Elizabeth something Levitt. You can probably Google it just fine.

  [40:22.1]

  Yep. But she did a great presentation for the virtual chapter this week about different construction terms and what the different parts of the building are and doing even that kind. It was an hour long.

  [40:37.6]

  It had a bunch of great information in it for designers who just don't know. Start there. Learning the terms is a great way to make sure you're learning the terms correctly is a great way to be able to communicate the contractor.

  [40:53.0]

  It makes his life easier because you can speak his language. That's half the battle. Making sure that you have drawings that are available if he needs drawings. Making sure that there is a construction binder there. If he needs a construction binder. If you have.

  [41:08.3]

  If you're the one specifying the lighting, give them the information, all of the specifications, all the installation instructions. For example, making sure all your documentation is really clean and neat and easy to find what you're looking for.

  [41:24.1]

  They don't want to spend 20 hours digging through a binder. It needs to be labeled well. Or digitally. If. If you get one of the. One of the few. I don't want to say. Not all contractors are digitally savvy.

  [41:41.7]

  I have worked with contractors where I had to physically mail him things. No. Because he didn't have email, text or. Yeah, no, true. There's a wide variety of skill levels out there, when it comes to technology and just, just understand that you meet them where they are.

  [42:03.9]

  Now if we're going to flip that. Also keep things updated. Keep things updated. Especially if you're doing a physical binder. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, that's a great point. I did leave that out. Make sure that you update things regularly.

  [42:20.9]

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing like when they start drilling holes in the ceiling for lighting fixtures and they're going off of version 2.0 and you're on version 4. Yeah, that's where keeping things digitally can help. But also keep the digital things updated too.

  [42:37.4]

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Bringing it back to Mydoma and platforms like that. Would, would that work for a contractor designer relationship? The way I've always heard it described is more between the client and the designer, how they both have access to things.

  [42:55.8]

  Can you loop the contractor in? Absolutely, absolutely. And a lot of people don't realize that, that you can set up just in, in Mydoma specifically I'm not going to speak to all software that's out there. But similarly in other softwares, you can set up a specific way, a specific set of permissions for a contractor to come in and access only the project that they're on.

  [43:22.4]

  And they can see, for example, maybe they're doing the purchasing but you're doing the specifying. You could have the schedule right there and ready for them and they can. Well, whether you're doing it or not, it's nice to have that schedule right there with all of the links to the documentation right in that schedule.

  [43:41.3]

  All they have to do is log in. In fact, Mydoma makes it easy because for each room or whatever kind of a space you have, if you do a PDF, you can, it has a QR code and so you can just paste the QR code up at the job site and then all they have to do is scan it, hit their password and they're in and they have all of the information for that particular space while they're standing in it.

  [44:09.7]

  And because Mydoma updates automatically when you update it, nothing's going. Yeah, it's all up to date. Yeah. And, and if the contractor had a question or an issue, even if it's, he's on the site at seven in the morning.

  [44:24.8]

  Right. He could, he could put that comment or question or message into Mydoma and then when the designer starts their day, they can look at it and go, oh, gotta fix that. Yeah, exactly. It's an opportunity for communication. You can put the drawings in there.

  [44:40.1]

  There's so many opportunities to use technology like that and share it with, the people who need to know. Okay. Yeah. And I know other platforms like Design Files, Programa Design, they have different things to help you work with contractors.

  [44:58.5]

  Just keeping in mind is that a lot of the platforms, not all, but multiple platforms, will require you to potentially pay for another team member seat. And so just make sure that you're looking into that with whatever platform you choose.

  [45:14.7]

  I know Mydoma is one that you would have to pay. If you want to set their permissions, though, you can add them as a client. Only problem is you can't hide everything. But I know design files because I just had a demo with them. They have a way to share it and just be able to kind of see it that way without having to log in.

  [45:34.9]

  But, I'm not an expert on design files. I am working on my knowledge of all the platforms. So. And so Materio does it too. Material where you can scan a QR code and, and just keep going.

  [45:50.7]

  Yeah. So a lot of them are either working towards it because enough designers, if you have requests just speaking from a support person, please submit it to that platform. Because if you. If that platform works well for you, that helps them continue to create it.

  [46:08.9]

  Will I always do it? No. But if enough people are wanting it, they will work towards it. And if it makes your life easier, whether you're a contractor or a designer, just make sure that you're actually telling people. Because if you.

  [46:25.3]

  And this jumps back to the interior designer contractor relationship, if something would make your life easier, tell them. Nobody's a mind reader. No, you just gotta say it. And be respectful, of course, and give details and answer their questions or ask questions.

  [46:46.3]

  But, yeah, it's helpful. Yeah. Dixie, you brought up, engineers a little while ago, and the relationship, like an engineer, client, homeowner, and their designer is, the engineers that I've listened over her.

  [47:06.0]

  My wife talking with as clients. She definitely had to change. And it. And it helped the business for the better because it. It, she now had this new archetype of client that she needed to be able to speak with in a way that the, the.

  [47:22.8]

  The engineer, you validated and felt this was the right way to do it. And I would say the same thing with the contractors. Right. That there may be a little bit of disrespect coming from both of those groups, engineers and contractors, towards designers. You I've.

  [47:39.1]

  I've heard, you Nicole's come back from a job and been called a pillow fluffer or something that. And I'm you and then that gets me angry and I'm screw that. I'm going down to that job site. You I mean, Dixie's definitely had to deal with that herself.

  [47:57.5]

  Both of them categories. Yeah. And never bring the male, female side of it into it too. But I mean, that's the, that's there for sure. Yeah. Right. So whether it was we. I've got the, the. I have been the lone woman in a class of male engineers, engineer students.

  [48:16.9]

  I have been the lone woman on a contracting site. I have name it, I've probably done it. And it is a different language now. I have a little bit of a cheat code in that I have that engineering brain, which helps.

  [48:32.1]

  Yeah. But across the board, the biggest thing to remember is make sure that you at least try to learn everything that you can ahead of time. You don't have to learn everything, but learn something. Go onto the job site and say, okay, I understand this, this and this.

  [48:50.8]

  I don't understand that. Could you please explain it to me? They're human beings, they're open to explaining things. If you just say, I understand all of this. It's just this one little thing. Or, I keep looking at your eyes to make sure I didn't free because you'll hold still.

  [49:10.3]

  And I'm oh, no, sorry. Okay. That blinked. Okay. Yeah. What was I gonna say? Just talking about proving that, you know what you know. Yeah. That, you have to go in as a professional and be confident.

  [49:28.9]

  And I see a lot of designers that get defensive. No, and you shouldn't, because you don't need to know how to be a contractor and you don't need to know how to be an engineer or a technologist or any of that stuff.

  [49:44.1]

  I mean, but speaking their language for sure. And in a way, when you ask someone a question like that, you say, you explain this to me. You you're, you're telling them, you I respect your knowledge on this subject.

  [49:59.5]

  Help me understand it better so that we can have a better relationship and work together. Exactly, yeah. And when it comes to the engineering clients, I recommend asking because they will have ideas. What if we do it like this? I just worked through this with someone, today actually.

  [50:20.5]

  The client is saying, well, I want to move the lights in because I talked to so and so, and they Said this. Well, that's going to change. First of all, this has already become almost a two thousand dollar conversation because they had this idea, maybe let them know that that's the kind of thing that happens.

  [50:38.2]

  But if the, if the client knows that you know your stuff, that's going to help prevent all of that. When you can have those conversations and they say, I have this idea, what if we did or why shouldn't we use.

  [50:56.8]

  There are two aspects to that. You need to tell them. Well, in my opinion, XYZ or we don't do it like this. But the part that everybody forgets is why. Yeah, why, why do you want to do that? Because you might get some really great information if you just remember to ask why a little bit more.

  [51:17.0]

  And it, I would say that goes across the board no matter who you're talking to. The why is just as important as everything else. Yeah. Before you dismiss, their suggestion may be wrong for five different reasons, but they just don't know that there was something else.

  [51:33.9]

  Yeah. That they could have suggested. Oh, so you want this, this, you think this is the way we're going to get to this, but you're wrong. But over here, this is how we'll give you what you need. And. Yeah. And knowing the why, exactly like you said, will help guide you to either that compromise or to figure out what exactly they're wanting and find a different route or be able to explain it or just some way to communicate and make them understand and make them feel heard and seen.

  [52:06.7]

  And that's the biggest part, the feeling heard. Yeah. Even if their idea doesn't work, they just want to feel heard. Yeah. Even the grouchy contractor wants to feel heard. Everybody does. Yeah, exactly. Okay. This, this was the part that I was definitely super excited about that relationship and that stuff.

  [52:26.3]

  And let's, let's dive into what Poised and Plum actually does for clients because I know you've got different services and so why don't we go into what, what you do. We have three main services that we do.

  [52:44.0]

  So the first one is we help designers, contractors, anybody in the industry really, as long as your service service industry and project based business. Within the design field. Sure. We help them figure out what their workflow is, get it documented and make sure that not just the workflow is documented, but all of the pieces, all of the resources, everything that they need along the way is put in a place that is easy for them to access and find and make their lives easier.

  [53:18.8]

  That's the biggest one. It's also the most important one. No matter what, after that, there are two other things that we do. We help them refine their systems. Sorry, one thing. How long would that put. Process take? I don't know that there is a typical. But how long would that process take?

  [53:36.3]

  Getting the, the project workflow written down is just a matter of getting the information out of the designer. Usually within a couple of hours. You've got the basics, and that's. When I say a couple of hours. I mean, just like Paxton was saying earlier, just the designer talking through, okay, this is what I do and this is how I usually do it.

  [53:58.6]

  You can usually get the information you need for the, for the outline. Right. The resources takes a little bit longer because there's going to be some back and forth. Maybe two more hours just to note all of those things.

  [54:14.7]

  And then, Can I. Yeah. I mean, if you're taking on a, a firm that wants to figure things out, do things better, but they've got 10 employees versus a solo designer, it's a different animal.

  [54:30.5]

  But can I assume though, that, both of your experience working with designers over the years has gives you the ability to ask the right questions, to probe and to pull to get what you need out of it? Because you.

  [54:45.6]

  One of you mentioned a template earlier, and I rolled my eyes that drives me nuts. I've spoken with so many coaches and, and operations experts for designers, and some of them are wonderful, beautiful.

  [55:02.2]

  They're. The approach is very personal. And others are this is the system. If you follow my system, your business will work. And I'm will it? Will it really? We're not all the same. I mean, everything you've said, so both of you said so far today has shown me that, you we're all special snowflakes in this kind of business.

  [55:25.8]

  Right. And there's. There's a very custom side to it. So I'm assuming that, that your. Both of your backgrounds allows you to do that, to make things a system that is one hand organized, but still custom and easy to use.

  [55:43.5]

  That's the most important part of it. Yeah. And being in the service industry, anybody that has ever done a service for anyone knows that sometimes whenever you're trying to figure out a problem, you gotta ask questions. Otherwise you're not gonna. You may not even know what the problem is, or, you may not know the solution.

  [56:04.0]

  So an example, a contractor can quote a job and then say, my Faucet's leaking. Well, there's a number of different things that could be. And you got to ask those questions to actually figure it out, especially if you're not there in person to see it.

  [56:22.2]

  And with it being a service to service, it's extra difficult because it's not hard set. With a faucet, you've got these set things. It's going to be the same no matter what kind of faucet. The plumbing's there, the water's there, the handles there.

  [56:41.3]

  Yeah. With a service, because there's so much fluidness to. Ironically, pun intended. Well, but there's so much that you need to have fluid and you have to know people and just be open and want to know more.

  [57:07.0]

  And some people get annoyed with a lot of questions. I know. I have been in plenty of meetings where people were not prepared. The amount of questions I will ask. Yeah. Dixie was a victim to something. Yeah. I've been that person.

  [57:22.1]

  Oh, really? Yes. But I. It's a matter of just being curious because you. It's a place of wanting to learn because, again, everybody does things differently. And so it's, wanting to know, okay, well, why do you do that?

  [57:39.7]

  Okay, so I can of see that I might not fully agree with it, but I can see that and then build other things around that. But just asking questions is a skill that I have. Somehow I want to know how it works.

  [57:58.2]

  And they may not even have a ready answer for that question. You may not, make them stop and pause and think, yeah, why do I do it that way? I've been doing this for five years. Why am I doing it this way? Yeah, yeah. The. The beauty of.

  [58:13.9]

  Of having us help when you're looking at your systems and processes is we can. We've seen so many at this point point, we can spot those little things along the way that, oh, I'm doing this because I have to send off this invoice, and I want it to have this information on it.

  [58:34.7]

  Well, you're so focused on getting that invoice with that information, you're not necessarily realizing that you could do it in a much faster, smoother way and still get what you want in the end. Yeah. It's similar to therapy. There's a reason why, you're in your own head and you are so focused in therapist or us, in this sense, for your business will help you pull back a little bit to understand and see an outside perspective.

  [59:04.5]

  Yeah, that's probably that for. For Most service businesses, I you I, I ran, prior to Covid, I, I own two fitness businesses and even when I was running the business and not really doing the day to day stuff, it was non stop.

  [59:21.7]

  I felt like a therapist, just managing people. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Does that take us through the first, of your services? Would you say we covered that? I think so. Okay.

  [59:37.8]

  And the second one. The second, the next one would of course be actually doing what I said and going through that. You have a process that you're pretty happy with, but things are just kind of really clunky at certain times and, and it could be better.

  [59:54.0]

  Okay. And we would come in and just help with that. So we don't have the whole. At that point, you've already got your processes. Now we're just looking at how those processes work together as a system.

  [60:08.4]

  Was that easier or more difficult, would you say, than starting from scratch? I'd say it's different. Okay. It's like the difference between starting with a custom new build or starting with a renovation. There may not be as many things in the renovation that you need to do, but there could be deeper problems.

  [60:27.4]

  Right. A custom new build is from scratch. There's a lot to do, but you're not having to go, you're not having to fix things that went wrong in the beginning. Right. Necessarily. You're having to learn things or you're having to unlearn things. Right. Yeah, yeah, I can see that with a, a renovation that you tear out the walls and you find some black mold.

  [60:49.5]

  Exactly. So you need to tear open their processes and look for the black mold. Yeah. And sometimes it'll be fine. It'll be great. There's no mold, there's no weird pipes in the way. Good. Things are just going to go perfectly and sometimes, sometimes not so much.

  [61:06.0]

  Yeah, there you go. But that's a learning opportunity too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so that's two. Software selection as well. I wanted to talk about that. Yeah. So obviously my dome is going to be probably top of the list.

  [61:22.8]

  So we actually are not biased. Oh my goodness. So, yes, my domo is and was near and dear to our hearts because it is part of what got us here. But again, one size does not fit all.

  [61:38.5]

  If it does not work for you, we're not going to push you into that. We really take the time to get to know you, your processes, the way you learn, the way you work and to try and what you need primarily and try to see.

  [61:56.7]

  Okay. What will fit you best from there, we will do the research for you. Because oftentimes people would rather stab themselves with a pencil having to do this research. I get it. But Dixie and I are really nerdy and weird and love to dig into things like that, and so we're happy to do it for them.

  [62:21.2]

  And we've already been doing a lot of this research to see, okay, here are how these different softwares work, and here are the kinds of people that do best in these kinds of software, and what kind of firm or just business in general does best in that kind of thing.

  [62:40.6]

  And so if there is something that you really, truly like about one software, but you're oh, but this other thing has this tiny little feature that I actually want, and it's going to totally ruin everything that you've built. It's not worth it.

  [62:57.6]

  Yeah, a lot of people will go for the shiny new thing or the thing that's promoted the most. And it isn't necessarily, don't go and change everything. See and evaluate if it's actually worth it. What is most important to you? What are you needing the most?

  [63:13.7]

  What is currently working that we don't want to break? Break? What are we willing to budge on? It's compromise constantly. And so we just, again, talk to the designers, learn about them, and then go from there and say, okay, here's the one that we think is best for you, not what we think is best, because, again, we all work differently.

  [63:38.8]

  We're also all working on different projects. And so, again, something for a new build. Construction might not be the same for somebody that's doing staging. While there are similar details, it's not the same. You might not have the same needs. And so just here's what's best for you.

  [63:56.0]

  Here are some that may be next to that. Let's discuss it a little bit further. They, the designer will, of course, make the final decision, but we will at least give you the pros and cons so you don't have to go and actually dig to it and also trial it for a month and realize it's not it.

  [64:16.3]

  And then you have to transfer all of your information and may or may not be able to export it and a whole bunch of different headaches, but also not, just go with whatever your team. You get a new hire, and somebody's I've been using this program.

  [64:32.5]

  It's great. Well, you're the business owner. Yeah. Focus on what works best for you. You can listen to them, but don't Just jump into that blindly actually make sure that you do the research or have us do it.

  [64:49.4]

  Yes. Okay, so assuming, assuming none of these platforms are one size fits all, would it be possible to get kind of an overview of some of the ones that you enjoy the most and what you like about it and what kind of designer maybe this would work for and who it wouldn't work for to kind of give the audience a bit of an idea of where to get started?

  [65:12.0]

  Or is that just a question that doesn't actually work? It works a little bit. There are definitely certain features of different ones that are really exciting. For example, Studio Designer has accounting built in. Right. But we find that it doesn't have as many of the design specific tools or necessarily the project management tools that some of the other ones do.

  [65:38.9]

  Materio has some really great features. Yeah, I've been geeking out over them for a little while now. But they've got. For any designer who has ever needed to do a furniture plan on this, on the actual plans you can put, you can drop not just the furniture, you can put little pins essentially on the things you could do.

  [66:02.7]

  The fixtures and then it all ties to the schedule so everything's nicely labeled and it's. That is a thing. I had to do that when I worked at the architecture firm Large Project. And it's not a small, it's not a small thing to do.

  [66:18.9]

  It's. Well, technology's a little bit further along these days. But yeah, Design Files is one that we've always heard is and have experience is a bit easier to grasp for some people just because it's easy to jump into and they make a lot of things very seamless.

  [66:37.8]

  And they've gotten a lot of new great features too. And to where for their design boards you can skew it and they have some AI features along with it and just get that rough idea out and go ahead and place it.

  [66:54.5]

  They've added a 3D. Or not a 3D. They've added a, a floor planner. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. And I've heard Programma. Programma has great schedules. They look really good. Yeah, they look really good.

  [67:10.6]

  And I know some people that have moved from other platforms to Programa And be the schedules are great. It's missing a couple features that they have but they were able to really dive into Programma and make it work for their major needs and then you can find other things.

  [67:27.5]

  Well, we don't want to be buying 20,000 different softwares. We want to make sure that we're trying to save money in our business. Yeah. But still meeting our needs. Just pros and cons of what is actually worth it.

  [67:44.3]

  And I'll add too, it's not just the process project, specifically interior design, project management software that we advise on. We know the difference between Trello and Canva or Canva Trello and ClickUp and Asana.

  [67:59.9]

  We know about Calendly and Acuity. We know about Sidemark. We know about. There's so many different softwares out there that designers could use. How they fit together too. Not just the individual ones but how they work as an ecosystem system.

  [68:16.3]

  Yeah. I mean free AI. I'd spoken with a number of people from, from these different platforms over the years and there's a lot to building that software. Right. And as a designer maybe they get feedback like that they would get feedback saying oh why can't you have this feature or this feature?

  [68:37.3]

  And you think it's a small thing. Right. But but if you stick something in there now that affects every, everything else and do you end up breaking something because you wanted this one little feature? And as the user we don't know and we don't, honestly we don't care.

  [68:54.1]

  Right. So, so there was a few platforms who haven't progressed to the, the name brand where they tried to do everything. They basically just looked at all these different things. We're gonna do all this stuff and it seemed like they, they put those features in there but they didn't work as well.

  [69:14.3]

  Right. So it's okay, so I got everything but it's not, there's stuff happening that's not working. But I wonder with AI now if we're going to start seeing connections. Right. Like Claude and, and chat, GPT will, will be able to talk, talk between these, these different platforms and they'll actually be able to do stuff together.

  [69:37.4]

  Yeah. That things are moving along in that, in that general direction. I work with Jenna Jaduzik for AI for interior designers and she's doing some great work. She even does custom apps.

  [69:55.5]

  Yeah. So if you want to get everything that you want, you need to go talk to Jenna first off. Oh no, I like what, what Jenna's talking about with AI. She's actually one of the very few in the design sphere. That, that I can honestly say she has a really good handle on what she's talking about and the, the, the desire to help is quite Evident.

  [70:21.1]

  There's other people who used to be. I'm not going to say any names, but they either sold templates or courses and now they're suddenly AI experts. And I'm that, is BS you. I don't believe you. I don't believe you.

  [70:37.4]

  But Jenna, Jenna does a lot with custom. She does that for designer. Not everybody can afford custom. In which case, yes, there are AI features coming along in the world that will help you make those connections. We're not having to use Zapier for everything we used to in the past.

  [70:58.0]

  The other thing is if you use Google. Google Workspace. Google Workspace has a lot of scripts that you can run and I'm going to try you and I talked about how hard it is not to start geeking out over this oh yeah, stuff.

  [71:14.9]

  But you can use Claude to help you build these scripts that you can then use to run your stuff. So. So even if you are nervous about using Claude Cowork, for example, to come in and do things, you can still use Claude to help you figure out how to make the connections in some of the stuff you already have.

  [71:38.7]

  Yep. Nope. For sure. I built a scope of work builder. Oh, really? Yeah, with Claude code. Tell me, tell me about it. Well, it's really great. I, think Jenna's gonna have it out soon. I did it for her.

  [71:54.6]

  Yep. But essentially you just, You hop into Claude. Yep. You say, this is what I want to do. I want to have something where I can just go. And in my case it was, I want to have a tablet where I can, just as I'm walking through the consultation, I can go select these things.

  [72:12.5]

  And then it spits out a scope of work based on the spaces and the things that you, you the aspects that you need to do. And I said I want it to be both. I want to have just a list and what phases. Is it construction related?

  [72:27.6]

  Related, Is it design specific, is it procurement? And then I also want you to give me a narrative like a description of the work that we're going to do. Yep. So it's really great because I, you start in cloud, you say this is, this is my idea. Give me a prompt to take over to cloud.

  [72:44.9]

  To cloud code. You hop into cloud code, you give it the prompt and then it's just a back and forth conversation until you get exactly what you want. And it is insanely fast and really, really cool. Yeah. No. That's wild. I love that. So you've, so you've essentially you built the Claude project to then build that, that specific tool out for everyone.

  [73:07.5]

  It's wonderful. So there, there are things that we can do to make our lives easier. Let's say there is that one feature that the software you love doesn't have. Maybe there's a way you could do it outside of that. I mean at some point I keep wondering where the platforms that exist right now, whether they buy that kind of thing.

  [73:30.7]

  Right. They pay somebody to do it, say this is a fantastic tool that, that Dixie and Jenna have built. Let's just buy the damn thing. And then you guys walk away with a nice little, little paycheck or they, or they copy you and try and do it themselves. Which. Well and I will say big, the big, softwares, no matter what it is, has a little bit of, they're writing things out in code that takes time to adjust.

  [73:59.0]

  Yeah. And so even if they were to buy something, that doesn't mean that they could necessarily fit it in there. No. I think where they're at a severe disadvantage is they do not have the knowledge that you guys have. Right.

  [74:14.3]

  And where AI excels is where they've got tons of high quality and high quantity data. So analysis of, of economics or, or looking at medical studies, it's great at that.

  [74:30.8]

  But interior design, where is, where Does Claude or ChatGPT have access to that information? They don't. No, it's all sitting inside designers brains. Yeah. And while it's out there. It's not out there.

  [74:47.1]

  No. It's not the end product or the beginning. It's not. Not all the things that it takes to. Yeah. Build that. Yeah, No, I mean I'm up to my neck in AI stuff and I, I'm fascinated by it.

  [75:02.9]

  And the more I learn, the more I'm seeing the limitations. Whereas a year ago I was I was right on there, we're either going to Utopia or we're all screwed. Right. And now I'm yeah, no, it's feeling more it's great, it can do great things, but it can't do everything they said it was going to do.

  [75:26.7]

  Yeah, yeah. It's great for, and we recommend aspects of it for getting your processes out and even for One of the things that we Recommend is using NotebookLM. Love it to be your resource.

  [75:44.0]

  Create a notebook in NotebookLM that has access to your project workflow, all of your SOPs, all of your resources, and then you can just go in there, type a question, how do I do this? And it'll give it to you. And it's only taking information from what you told it to look through.

  [76:02.6]

  Not like a Wikipedia page. You said, here's my library. Yes. Yeah, your library. It's not working, anywhere else. And by the way, just in case anybody's concerned about privacy, the nice thing about NotebookLM is not only is it only looking at your stuff, they don't use.

  [76:20.4]

  If you have a paid Google workspace, they don't use your information to train their models. Yeah, and that's something to be aware of because I remember when they, brought Gemini into Gmail the very next day, people flipped out because someone figured out that there was a toggle that was the default, was they now have access to not just the emails that are starting today, but everything.

  [76:49.1]

  And then a week later or two days later, whatever it was, Google's oops, and they. They switch that toggle back the other way. Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, can't necessarily trust them. But, it's some pretty cool stuff. Dixie, you brought up team, teaching at, Luann University.

  [77:09.8]

  I'm a huge fan of Luann, as are a lot of people. Her podcast was the reason I started mine. I just loved the conversations she would have and, the stuff she would pull out. And, you brought up earlier about how designers used to, gatekeep.

  [77:28.6]

  And how that seems to have changed. The amount of stuff that people now share is it's wonderful. And I have to say that all is Luann. That's her, talking to people and yeah, fantastic. Right?

  [77:43.7]

  So tell me about the stuff you're doing with her. So with Luann, I teach three courses. There's the project qualification one I mentioned earlier. There is, risk management and contingency planning. I teach how to actually write a standard operating procedure because everybody says you need a process, you need a workflow, you need an sop, and then they just drop it.

  [78:08.5]

  So I actually teach you the steps to go through, not just to get it written, but to make it much more painless and where people actually read it. Is that all three of the courses? That's all three of the courses. And then, I am also a board member of Luann's boardroom, for creatives.

  [78:28.2]

  She just announced. Yes, I just heard about that. Well, of course you are. You're so fancy. Well, I, I, I have known Luann for, Gosh, probably over 10 years now. Yeah, close to 10 years. Somewhere around in there. And, when I had a podcast way back in the day, she was one of our guests.

  [78:47.3]

  And I remember how excited we were when Luann actually wanted to talk to us. Yeah. So we're one of the people who got her to actually record video as part of it. She was not doing much video, and we, Rachel Moriarty and I had a podcast, and it was all about being seen.

  [79:08.6]

  It was about visibility. We're luann, you need to have video with that. Very nice. Not just the audio. Yeah, well, yeah, so, yeah, maybe. I mean, I think I came into her world, a few years in after she'd already been doing it.

  [79:25.1]

  So did she start out doing just audio podcasting? Yeah, yeah. She seems like a natural on camera. She's amazing at it. Yeah. But we all start somewhere. We all start with, consider, two. You ten years ago, we weren't doing as much talking online visibly as well.

  [79:48.8]

  For us to do a live video on Facebook was huge. It was this huge hurdle we had to overcome. And now it's just, I'm just gonna flip on your phone and across the board, you see people all over.

  [80:05.4]

  It's normal. It's normal to do that. Not some big production. This is going to be a podcast, a YouTube video, a whole bunch of short videos. I've got a plan to do, a, live stream on, on AI and image generation.

  [80:23.1]

  How to improve the prompts. But, and I want to do it live. Like, I want people to come on and ask me questions, and I'm I got to be able to give an answer on it. Right. I'm yeah, I totally, I'm terrified, but I'm I'm doing it. That's exciting, though. And that's part of what is, adrenaline.

  [80:39.4]

  You're just oh, I'm just gonna do it. And then it happens. You're well, that was a lot easier than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah. Right. But that's, it's great that you're wanting to do that and just get people to ask questions and give them that opportunity.

  [80:55.8]

  Yeah. I did a, I did a talk up here in Toronto last week, and it was literally my speech part was 15 to 20 minutes, time. I had it all down pat. I was there for a little over two and a half hours, and that was all with Questions.

  [81:12.7]

  And they were the same. It was the same question coming at me from different angles. But it really, it's, it was mostly about image generation, which is where most designers are still using AI and then just a general. I thought that the, the audience, because they were.

  [81:31.4]

  They self identified and were interested that. That their knowledge would be pretty good, but it really wasn't like. And I think it's because I'm now into this that I think what I think is normal and. But there's so much BS and stuff.

  [81:48.3]

  So, yeah, I guess it's like talking to you guys about, operations and organizing your business and helping it. What you consider is obvious. Probably. I'm going to ask the dumb question to you. Oh, there are no dumb questions. Well, there are dumb questions.

  [82:05.0]

  Thank you. Tell you that they are. Yes. There you go. Be nice about it. There you go. We've heard it all. We have heard it all. Yeah, that was a dumb question. Doug, why did you ask that question? I asked dumb questions all the time. And I will openly say it and be I'll ask the question no, don't answer that.

  [82:22.1]

  That was a dumb question. That's good. Okay, so let's say I'm an interior designer and I've just started out. Money is tight. Would love to have you help me, but I can't afford you. What would be something they could start on today if you've just started out?

  [82:42.6]

  Okay, if you're just starting out, then I'm going to recommend that you find an example to start with. There are tons of pieces out there of information that you can find. You could ask us, we're happy to tell you the main project pieces of a project and how to do it together or how to pull it together.

  [83:02.8]

  Where it becomes yours is after you've worked for a little while and you notice things that work better for you that don't work for you. That's that's really the time that we typically are. Are more involved. Right. At that point it's, it's going to be.

  [83:22.6]

  Well, I guess we're going to back up still to the. To the newbie. Yeah, that Ask questions for sure. There are tons of resources out there. Join a group like ids, asid, oh my gosh, yes. Network with other designers and Become friends.

  [83:40.4]

  It is more about community over competition. Because it is also nice to refer people whenever you're that project is not for me, but I can refer them and then they'll likely return the favor at some point. And just again, not gatekeeping, just talk with other designers and take it with a grain of salt because again, it may not be for you, but you can at least start the conversation and start getting the wheels turning and just have somewhere to go versus just only going off of what you know.

  [84:16.4]

  And there may be a lot that you don't know. So honestly, networking, talking with other designers is going to be a major resource just because it'll get you out of your head and getting you into learning from other people's mistakes, experiences and so on.

  [84:36.1]

  And also groups like, Interior Design Community. That's what I was thinking too. They're just, their Instagram posts alone, those questions they put up. I mean there are so many yeah, resources now for complete.

  [84:53.1]

  Know nothing about how to run the business just to get. And then join the different communities and start asking questions like Paxton has told us many times. Yeah. All right. You guys are awesome. I, I'm really happy that I got you guys on. Are there any questions that I should have asked that I missed?

  [85:10.8]

  Things you want to say?

  [85:15.2]

  There is one little thing that we are technically starting in two weeks is that we are doing workflow intensive, workshops. There we go. It's the word. And we are planning to do that quarterly.

  [85:32.7]

  And so that is where we give you some pre work to do. Like a brain dump and just organizing some things or at least labeling some things, not doing all the work because you can't solve that. And then we meet for an afternoon probably will be most likely.

  [85:52.8]

  And we will help you kind of work through that and get those gears working and steps starting to move. So you aren't just continuing to be like, well, I'll just do it later. Because that's another problem where people are just like, I know I need to do this, but I'm so busy.

  [86:10.9]

  I'm just going to keep going and come back to it and then never come back to it. We're forcing you to sit down and look at it, and you have us to ask questions. And of course, we'll present some things to kind of help get you along, figure things out.

  [86:28.9]

  This is virtual. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, just. It could have been in real life, something. Yeah, people still do that to do that. And, we. We plan to do that in the future to offer it in. In person as well, but. Yeah, that'd be cool. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah.

  [86:43.9]

  At an event or something like that. You could totally do that. That's a good idea, too. Okay. And that's in two weeks? It is June 30th. And then we plan to do it quarterly. Okay. Is there a deadline for people to sign up? What, June 29th? No, it's actually a couple of days.

  [87:01.7]

  June 26th. Because we want to make sure that people have time to actually. Yeah, do that. But again, so there will be a wait list sign up for. For the next quarter. And this is. Sorry, this is the first one that you're doing. Okay.

  [87:18.5]

  I've got a few podcasts currently already in the bank ready to go. But maybe I'll. I'll bump you guys up the list and try to get your podcast on before so we can. That would be great. Not that you need the promotion, but I'm sure.

  [87:34.5]

  I'm sure it's going to be full, but that, would be appreciated. But again, it's quarterly, so. Yeah, you're gonna do it anyway. It doesn't happen because we know life happens. Yeah. Okay. Okay, well, I'll try. I'll try to do that. If I can.

  [87:50.1]

  If I can find the time. Who's got time anymore? I have no time. Nobody has time for anything. Nobody has time for anything. Exactly. That's what I should have named the podcast. Nobody has Time for Anything podcast. I like that. Yeah. All right.

  [88:06.5]

  I said, you guys are awesome. How can people find you? Website, email, social media, all that stuff. Waste and plain plum with a B. Like a plum line. Yeah, Poison Plum is our, Instagram handle.

  [88:22.6]

  It is. You can find us on LinkedIn. You can find us. It's our website, poised and plum dot com. And you can always email at us. Email us at hello, at Poison Plum if you have any questions. All right, that's fantastic. Thank you so much.

  [88:38.1]

  All right, and we're done.

Key Takeaways

• Awareness is not the problem. Follow-through is. Designers in this audience already know what a system is. What stops them is the deferral — "I'll get to it later" — repeated until later never comes.

• Brain dump before you organize. The first step toward a system is getting everything out of your head, in any order, not building something polished. Organizing comes after, not during.

• Refine, don't rebuild, every time. A good system keeps what already works and adjusts what does not. Starting from zero on every project isn't the goal — repeatable structure with room to flex is.

• Fixing an existing business is renovation work, not new construction. Opening up what already exists means finding what has been hidden, for better or worse — different, and sometimes harder, than building clean from day one.

• Fifteen minutes a week beats waiting for a free weekend. Systems get built in small, consistent blocks of time, not all-at-once overhauls that keep getting pushed to a calmer week that never arrives.

• You don't need money to start. Community, networking, and asking direct questions of people already doing this work are available before any paid support makes sense.

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Conclusions

The Gap Between Knowing and Doing: Nearly every interior designer knows, at some level, that an undocumented business is a fragile one. The knowledge has never been the problem. What separates a firm that runs on memory from one that runs on documentation is not information — it's momentum, the willingness to sit down with what already exists in your head and get it onto paper, imperfectly, before it needs to be perfect. Designers who keep deferring this work aren't behind on knowledge. They're behind on starting.

What You Can Do This Week: Pick one recurring task you already do well — client onboarding, an install-day checklist, a proposal template — and write down every step exactly as you currently do it, in any order. That's your brain dump. Don't organize it yet. Set a timer for fifteen minutes this week and do this once. If you're early in your business and can't justify paid support yet, join a professional community like IDS or ASID and ask three other designers how they handle the same task. You're not looking for a perfect system. You're looking for a starting point.

The Business You're Building: A design business that runs on documentation instead of memory isn't just more organized — it's less exhausting to run. When the operational side has a system instead of living entirely in one person's head, there's real space to do the work that brought you into this field in the first place. The creative work gets the room it deserves once the operational side stops draining every ounce of your attention.

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